AI and HI

“All of the information accumulated in a lifetime, we learn, is less than a drop in the ocean of information, and perhaps a creature that can collect more information and hold onto it longer is … more than human. In describing this vision of an evolving intelligence, Corinthians is evoked twice: ‘For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as I am known.”” —Roger Ebert’s review of the 1996 Ghost in the Shell

Interview Notes: Dr. David Sinclair, on Age Reversal

Dr. David Sinclair is one of the world’s leading researchers on aging. A biologist at Harvard, he is pioneering research that’s showing dramatic reversals in the symptoms of aging among mice and more recently, humans. I approached him to participate in Future You as we prepared to pivot from brain-machine interfaces and neurotech into the “superhuman” possibilities for longevity and life extension. 

Loose notes from our call:

We’re at a turning point like the Wright Bros in 1907, when flying was considered something only for the rich and crazy. Age reversal and living to 150 is considered still something for the rich and crazy but we are at the moment, the moment is now, where extending mouse lives by 30 percent is easy.

There’s a race among scientists now in the field: Is it possible to make a medicine to treat aging as a disease?

If aging is treated as a disease, you are treating the myriad diseases that kill us, that flow downstream from aging.

Sinclair is in trial with his NAD-boosting molecule, his patients are “boosting” right now to extend their lives. He personally tried his own molecule and within four months reduced his biological age from 58 down to 31.

Two scenarios he thinks through (which are in his upcoming book): What if we are successful in extending human lifespans by 50 years, and what if we’re not?

We already spend 17 percent of our GDP on healthcare/treating diseases at the end of people’s lives. We’ve reached a ‘dead end” in treating diseased one at a time — like if you cure your cancer, your risk for everything else, stroke, heart disease, etc go up. The only way to make real progress is to slow down the likelihood of ALL of those diseases, which is to slow down aging.

There are relatively simple means to delay aging now, by boosting your body’s defenses to disease. THE FUTURE is in trying to nudge humanity toward this. You could eventually have a $5 trillion savings in healthcare to then go to the social safety net, saving species, boosting education spending, etc.

DRAWBACKS: You’d have less turnover of politicians, you’d have them into their eighties not relinquishing their roles, the retirement age couldnt be 65 anymore, but I have proposals like skillbaticals, where you have two or THREE careers over the course of your super long life.

HOW COULD I TRY THIS, for FUTURE YOU?

I can’t try the molecule since it’s in controlled research trials. But a diabetes drug that requires a prescription has a similar effect. That, combined with a protocol he will give me, can help delay my aging.

  1. Measure my biological age with a blood test (blood sugar is a predictor of longevity), take an age meter test at Harvard that measures hearing, memory and breathing to take a physical/mental measurement of my body’s age that way, and finally test my DNA against a DNA clock. Three metrics to start to see how “old” I am and whether we can reverse it/make me younger.
  2. Protocol. Includes a pill, intermittent fasting, exercise, and cryotherapy, which involves going from a sauna and then into a cold bath. All of these non-pill tasks involve the idea of “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” so you are supposed to give your body some adversity like hunger, running, making it colder.

HIS THEORY

Aging is a loss of information between cells. As we age, our cells lose their identity and don’t read one another as well when they replicate. The DNA info in there is still in tact. So if we can polish the cells, like CDs that get scratched and then are polished to work better, then we are reversing aging.

“I didn’t expect this would be doable in my life time.” There’s a $50 mil trial now to replicate my findings in older people. If you want an idea of how close are we, we are JUST around the corner. We are not UNDERSTANDING aging after testing testing testing, and now we’re testing in humans.

Background call with Dr. Vincent Clark

We are cooking up an episode frame around “Super Memory” or just boosting our memories and our ability to remember, in general. I spoke with Dr. Vincent Clark, who along with Dr. Pilly Praveen have authored several papers on their research in stimulation to improve memory formation.

Loose notes from our call:

Our tech is related to TDCS. It’s multi-channel instead of two electrodes. Can do 32 channels and a variety of different methods. The one that worked best is we train subjects on a task — we can present the task using VR or on a computer screen. The goal is for the subject to see complex images and cues and potential threats (bombs, snipers) and test how much you learned. Then they sleep in lab and either stimulate or not, depending on condition, and wake up and test again.

Does stimulation help with learning to detect threats? This closed loop stimulation that zaps you with the part of your brain that does memory consolidation.

Underlying principle of TDCS is the same as Halo headsets, but with diff brain areas.

In some studies it double peoples ability to learn/remember.

With sleep stimulation, the larger effect is with stimuli that’s novel from the original scenario during training. The effect is larger to stimulate with different contexts. The cognitive task is the same. But one stimulation is, TDCS during training (stimulation focused on the right frontal lobe) and we enhance people’s abilities to detect threats and learn to respond to them. Then later, when TDCS wears off, they’re still better at detecting and responding to threats. 

With that same protocol on right frontal lobe, we have had subjects do a different task which doesn’t have anything to do with threats. You have to classify photos of maps from diff parts of the world. We quadrupled people’s performance with TDCS over the right frontal lobe. The results give us clues to how TDCS is working. It makes people more tenacious. They don’t give up as easily. They’re more persistent. It could generalize to a lot of diff things in the future!

“Everyone wants to be my research subject.”

To repeat this protocol we need equipment that’s off site. Could arrive by 24th.

For demo purposes we could do a nap. We may not seem the same effects for a whole night study, but we have the subject come sleep in the lab without stimulation just to get used to it, and the next night is when we apply stimulation. For demo, we’d put a neoprene electrode cap on your head, but with electrodes in it, and then we record EEG while you sleep and the algorithm will wait until you’re in a deep stage of sleep and then stimulate. We might have to turn the threshold down during a nap. Then you could record EEG screen, record me sleeping in the lab.

There are a few other things we could show you — besides electrical stimulation, we also have magnetic stimulation, ultrasound to modulate brain activity, and infared light to modulate memories. After our success with electrical stimulation, we branched out. We don’t have a lot of cool successful data but we can show if you’re interested.

ORDER:

test

an hour of training

test again

sleep with stim (all night long)

test again (next morning)

(Naps would abbreviate the whole schedule.)

Behind the Scenes in California

Producers Beck and Kara joined me here on the best coast for shoots and interviews in LA and SF last week. Here are some behind the scenes snaps…